Dr. Isaac Zama – Amba Farmer’s Voice pt 2 – Jìgìjìgì: Africulture Podcast

Dr. Isaac Zama – Amba Farmer’s Voice pt 2

In this second part of our interview with Dr. Zama we move through the different possibilities for food, pidgin, and how libations connect us to the soil. This particular segment is powerful and it is my honor to share it with you all.

Works Referenced

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Transcript (automated)

MO 1:07:03
So now we get to our third question. How have you grown while growing all that you got growing on? Meaning? How has your well being improved? By being in the soil?

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:07:19
Oh, the for that there’s absolutely no question that eating natural food, or eating organic food improves your health? There’s no, there’s no question about that. You don’t need to have gone to school to know that. You remember, our parents us would stay up to the 100 years? For the night? Yeah. Why? Because they were eating natural organic food. So organic food is natural medicine in itself. So you know, to demand how my health has improved as a result of, you know, paying attention to what I put in my body. My health has actually improved. You don’t get as tired, as, you know, as much as I used to. And not only that, the taste? Yeah, the food itself. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s like day or night. Yeah, you know. So, you know, encouraging everybody to try to see how they can grow their own, not organic or natural food would eventually improve your health. That is there’s no gainsay about that. You know, you don’t talk to talk to the older folks, they’ll tell you, they, you know, they ate natural food and they stayed for so long. Unlike us today that we are, you know, we grew up eating so much processed food, by by time you hit 30 You start having all these kinds of complaints have complaints. So, you know, if we want to protect our health, and if we want to live long, we should start by eating by eating healthy and organic food that will reduce our going to the doctor, you know, all the time.

MO 1:09:44
Yeah.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:09:48
Especially,

MO 1:09:50
I mean, and if and if that doesn’t appeal to you. The taste factor will really I mean, no No, no food tastes as good as the food you’ve grown yourself. Yes. The kale that we have growing at the farm right now. I mean, it, it. I mean, if you know what you’re looking for it looks fantastic, right? It’s it’s the curls, the curly kale, that you can’t even see the stem, right, because it’s so cold, so tight. But, Tim, I mean, and I, I’ve grown that kale before, but not in the way. I mean, that was years ago. But this time around this kale has been almost, it almost tastes buttery. I just like I didn’t know that kale could also taste like popcorn, you know, because of the because of just the the amount of flavor. Now, of course, all of these favorite flavors are really subtle. Right. And so one thing that you really do have to work on with a being able to appreciate that taste is resetting your own palate, you know, resetting your tongue to be able to get used to how food is supposed to taste. A lot of the reason that you know, I have this theory, and it may be a little bit controversial, but regardless, um, you know, a lot of especially black American cuisine, African American cuisine is heavily season heavily spiced Yes. And I think that a lot of that comes from traditionally not having high quality food. And you I mean, it’s, I mean, chitlins, chitterlings, you know, all these different things, that is not a high quality food, you have to be able to season it to not have it not taste like what it is. Yes. And, you know, by the end, like I was telling me to yesterday, like, when people would get our cabbages and stuff like that, from the farm, they immediately talk about taking Turkey necks and fat back and all these different things. And putting, you know, putting that in, in in the pot, or whatever, whenever they cook the college or they cook all these different things. And they

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:12:32
basically

MO 1:12:34
eliminate all of the health from the food that they’re getting, because they’re cooking it for far too long. There. And then they’re putting all of this other stuff into it, that would remove the ability for you to actually taste the greens right. Now, obviously, putting the fat back the bacon, all these different things in there is going to taste good, because all those things taste good. Yeah, I’m gonna deny that. But it is about figuring out oh, what does? Or what do these different plants taste like? You know? And how can I appreciate that taste? Like we’re talking about sweet potatoes, I could some of the sweet potatoes that we had had from the farm. And, um, man, when I just, I don’t even I don’t remember how I put them that time. But immediately this image came to me when I put them right. That it was it tasted like the sunrise, you know, but the sunrise is itself. A very subtle thing. Right? Right, all of these different colors that come up there, right. And so if I were to overload it with butter and salt and too much cinnamon and sugar, then it would just be like flavoring it for noon. Yeah, I mean, that’s not what you know. So I was trying to you know, this, like, I was trying to say that to somebody when when they came here and they were buying some of the sweet potatoes. They’re like how you cook them. And I said, when you cook these things, just picture the sunrise right? Cook towards that when you cook them because you don’t need to add all that other stuff because they’re coming from right here. You know, and they looked at me like I was crazy,

but I’m used to that.

Because a lot of this stuff when you really get down to it and you start reprogramming your taste buds. You realize that you don’t need a lot of this stuff too. You don’t need a lot of you don’t need a lot of oil. Well you still need oil to cook but you don’t need to really be concerned with flavoring it so much because all you need to do as opposed to putting flavor in all you need to do is bring flavor out.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:14:58
Yes

MO 1:15:02
So, and especially like, I went to the farm yesterday, and there’s a bus, there’s a bus stop right near the farm and, and one of the guys, there’s a guy picked up, another bus driver picked up the route recently. And he was the only bus driver since I’ve been there for two seasons now who has reached out and been like, Yo, what are you guys doing blah, blah, blah. And that was really exciting, because, you know, he, they stopped the bus, their previous bus drivers that use the Porta Potty that we have had on premises, but they never tried to buy any of the vegetables and stuff. And so I’m talking with him yesterday, I gave him one of those buttery kale leaves, I gave him one of the carrots that I pulled out the ground, and some of the mustard leaves and stuff like that. And man, he was super excited. You know, and it’s just like, that’s what it is, you know, we bring people to the farm all the time, they see the okra, that is, you know, taller, but you know, super tall, I’m six feet, and I still have to reach up all the way to get into the okra that’s all the way up there, you know, let’s, you know, seven, seven and a half feet in the air, right? The corn, same height, you know, people get around that kind of stuff. And they’re like, Oh, my God, I feel like I’m a child again, you know. And, you know, that kind of stuff is, you know, and, and that’s why I have the podcast, right? I mean, we want to build your soul at the same time and your own feelings of resilience, self sufficiency, by just you know, you you won’t forget the taste, I haven’t forgotten the first pickup that I gave myself, after eating my first sweet pepper, I sat there and immediately started hiccuping. And I was like, I gotta learn more about this, because this is a very powerful feeling.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:17:01
Right? Right. You know, one of the things which people you know, I don’t know, but, you know, there’s some spirituality in food, which we are missing in this mechanical world in which we are today. And, you know, I’m really happy that, you know, you’re trying to educate people to consider food as not only something that feels the stomach, but that there’s some spirituality involved. When, you know, you’re eating, organic or natural food, there’s some kind of connection between, you know, what you’re getting from the ground, which is very natural, and some universe that is part of what we what we as humans are. So, you know, that is something which, you know, he needs somebody to have gone, you know, to have thought through this for a long time, to be able to make that connection between what you eat, and your spirituality.

MO 1:18:21
You’ve provided the perfect segue for the next question, do you believe that we have a special relationship with the soil? We as black folks, African people, and if so, how do we perpetuate that special relationship?

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:18:38
Yes, we do. Because we leave from what comes from the soil. So if nothing comes from is fine, we’re going to die. You know, even though we are in the 21st century, where we have a lot of mechanized or a lot of processed things that come from the soil, but everything else comes from the soil. So we are connected, you know, to that soil. So it is left on us now, you know, to try to go back to the natural soil that is supposed to be you know, for us to really live a fruitful life as well as is supposed to be you know, as black people.

There is so much spirituality and connection between us as a people on the soil. For those of us who grew up, back then at a time Our parents would pour libation. Which is a connection between the living and the dead. Eye, you do that through the soil, how does that manifest most families who are not yet Christian, but that’s not what I mean. They have family shrines in their home. There are some shrines that built with elf, it has an F mount a small f mount into the house, which jewelry during certain times in the year, the whole family would gather, like what we have here, as you know, family reunion, but back then, you know, gather and for house, and the we use, you know, they’ll bring certain gifts, you know, to the ancestors or to this, you know, to their, to their ancestors. And you know, they will bring palm oil, they will bring salt, they’ll bring palm wine, and, you know, talk on top on top, you know, and then they’ll pour some of the palm wine on the family shrine, asking the ancestors to take this, this is their own food, that you know, the children who are alive are bringing, you know, to them, or, you know, this is palm wine, get this palm wine and drink, this is palm oil, this is palm oil, and, you know, soothe yourself or cook whatever you want to cook in the spirit world. And the reason why, you know, they bring that, you know, through the medium is to be able to communicate, and connect with the ancestors, and they do that through the earth. So, as black people, the F is extremely, extremely important for us to connect with our Creator, whatever the Creator may be, or with our ancestors, wherever they are. So, it’s the same thing with food, our connection with the cosmos is through the earth. That is why when people live this world, they go down through the earth and through that if you go out into the cosmos, or to where, you know, into the world beyond So, that is the connection that we have. With Earth, you know, for you know, for us as black people to live well on this earth, I mean, you know, in this cosmos, we have to get good fruit from the earth. With with us who are living to be able to communicate with our parents or ancestors, or our gods who are in the world beyond, we go through F by giving them food, palm oil, palm wine, a little bit of salt, in some traditions, they will even throw a piece of, of meat of chicken, you know, on that shrine for them, you know, for the ancestors, you know, to take that and eat and the and the reason is for the ancestors to protect, you know, you know, their family members who are still alive, you know, from bad things are happening from them and things like that. So, you know, I thought I should bring this little bit of explanation show our connection between us who are living and not only food, but our ancestors who are in the water we don’t see.

MO 1:24:19
And I’m so glad you did. You know, because um it’s one thing for me to talk about this kind of stuff being 500 years removed. Right. And, and you talking about it further invigorates me to find a even even more of a connection to to the soil and to my ancestry to the ancestors right through the soil. Like I told you before we got on you And, and I’m glad that you brought it up because so many people are confused about what our spirituality is. Right? As I mean, I don’t have to explain it to you. And I’m and so it’s, that is, I mean, obviously the podcast is one vessel for showcasing appropriate spiritual technology, right? Um, because this is how we’ve always done it. And this is why it’s within us, you know, I didn’t inherit these. I mean, I call them black thumbs, I didn’t inherit both of my thumbs from both sides of my families, for no reason, right? This has been with us this whole time. And the different aspects I mean, especially it within big conserved behavioral practices, that act of libation is one of the most conserved practices of black people, and especially in a lot of black Americans don’t even know why we do it, you know, but we definitely do it. And, um, and especially in the end, I really, really appreciate the way that you described it, because it makes it

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:26:23
so

MO 1:26:25
much easier to think about, right? That it is us, I mean, it is even helpful for me, right? I’m, you know, even though I’m having this sort of, you know, interview, poise and all that kind of stuff, I’m, you know, full to the brim with excitement about what you just shared, because it does make it more accessible, right, because getting to our own spiritual practices, which are fundamentally different from any Abrahamic situation. It’s hard to even conceptualize what that stuff looks like, in a practical capacity, right? Especially when different and different practices like you file or Vodoun or the, or, or, or all of the different things require initiation to kind of understand the different things or different people want to pay once you to pay to, to, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Um, but it is ultimately like, like you said, the the earthen mound as an altar, and giving these offerings to your ancestors, thanking them in in this reciprocal way, you know, that, you know, because I’m thankful that I’m here, I want to offer you this, right. And so, like, I talked about before, with the, like, I was telling you, I made those revise for the black soldier flies, I made those revise for the ancestors, and put set that out on the altar. But because I was living in an apartment, I can’t necessarily just throw it out the window. So I fed that too. Then too, I took the the steaks, and then put them in the black soldier fly buckets, right? Because as I was reading this one paper about the Cranko people in Guinea, and like we were talking about before, about the sort of spiritual implication of termites, right, and these being messengers, um, and because we don’t have, we don’t know, because our houses are constructed with wood out here

in the United States, you don’t want to cultivate

but you can cultivate black soldier flies, and they work, you know, to me, it’s been communicated to me that they work in a similar way. Right? And so on, uh, you know, to dispose of these of these steaks, you know, rather than throwing them away, or rather than tossing them somewhere, you know, I can feed them to the black soldier flies, derive all this stuff, and then I use those to then plant some ornamental flowers and for our front yard, you know, yep. Um, and, and. And so in the way that you’re talking about it in to perpetuate, then, the ancestral communion, right, and libation. And these different, these different practices that we can do with these different offerings is a way to perpetuate that that special relationship.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:29:46
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep.

MO 1:29:50
I’m Dr. Zama. Why do you think the healthiest soils are black?

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:30:02
Yeah, the answers are simple. Okay, black is life. Black is life, black, the color black or whatever what I call it color or what that is life, I’ll give you a simple example an analogy go, you know you have a farm, go to that farm and pick up the soil that is not black. Okay, and pick up another side that is black and plant food and see which one grows, which one will grow you have farmer who’s gonna grow

MO 1:30:45
and the one in the black soil also it is because,

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:30:47
because this is because the black squares are because it is life that is the simplest of explanations that I can tell you, why the soil is black, that is how nature merit that you will get good enough food from this thing that is black. And if you make you know, if you get what is it apples, bananas, whatever, you put it somewhere, it turns black, right, it is just nature that is we will call it God or nature that is when nature made it. And so, that is why you know, compost is black, because it produces good and natural food. Again, the simple example is if you get red soil, and you plant on it, or you get black soil or you plant on it, you will see that you will get much more harvest from the black soil. So to get a good harvest or good food, your soil has to be black, you have to do everything to be able to get you know, soil that is black for you to have good and enough harvest. I know maybe some of your listeners are. So our listeners may talk about you know, including of this kind of chemical fertilizers and red soil. And yeah, that is not what I mean, if you just take the soil as it is, in its natural state without any additives, not any inputs, if you take black soil, or you take red soil or any other soil, the amount of food that you grow that you have is from the black soil will be more than the amount of food that you’ll get from any soil that is not black. And so

in order to let people not starve the soil that they’re growing food in has to be black. I don’t know if that makes sense to you?

MO 1:33:17
No, absolutely. It makes sense. Absolutely. It makes sense. And and it is you have provided the simplest explanation thus far, I do have an idea for a podcast that is a little more sophisticated, but I think it’ll help the critical thinking ability of our people. I mean, it’s separate from this idea but but somewhat related in talking about when the healthiest soils or when the blackest soils aren’t necessarily the healthiest soils, right? Because there’s some times where just color can deceive you. Yes. So I don’t want to I, I want to be responsible with with with with the, you know, the stuff that I’m putting out there and being like, Hold on now is not always the case. Because sometimes you can have super waterlogged soils or something like that. And, and it can be it can be actually detrimental. But within the experiment that you were talking about, yeah, if you took some clay out of the ground and tried to put something in it, only the most resilient thing may grow. But it’s not going to be a tomato, it might be a pine tree that might it’s not going to be it’s not going to be a tomato or some corn or something that you actually want to eat. You know, none of that stuff is going to grow in that red clay but in that black soil Absolutely.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:34:44
Yeah, um you know, if you want to get scientific into it, you will see that you know, the black soil favors a medium for micro organisms to grow in it. That will then help you know your your your plants. to grow, as opposed to, you know, a soil that is not black or that is red, that will not have the they will not have the same amount of microorganisms in it that will enable, you know, food to grow. So that would be what anyone had, you know, talking about that yeah, collar collar in itself is not 100% requirement to grow, or to do to get good harvests. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But, you know, the black soil provides a medium for lots of biological organisms to, you know, to thrive, help, you know, food grow.

MO 1:35:41
Yeah, I mean, into, like you said, you know, it’s your statement of black is his life is a kind of statement that can apply to as deep within the science as we want to get to it, right? Because it is only by the amount of aggregate, that however many different microbial communities we can stuff into this square centimeter, right? That is what is going to actually ensure the health of the crops that you’re trying to grow. And so you want to make sure ultimately, that the soil is alive. Yes. That that that soil that has no color will have no life.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:36:23
Yep. Yep.

MO 1:36:26
Our podcast is based on this yoga away or proverb. Gigi crochet for two to a firmly rooted plant cannot be uprooted. What is your favorite agriculture or plant related problem?

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:36:42
agricultural related problem is that the soil would never for you. Oh, it’s so

MO 1:36:57
I like that. Yeah.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:36:59
Yeah. So no matter what you do, you know, you can have a million dollars today in the bank and tour all is gone. can buy an airplane with a million dollars, and it crushes on the healthiness car. But if you plant a seed in the soil, and you tend you tend it is going to grow. If you have a hectare, or an acre, and you know you plant, whatever you want to plant, if you give it the good soil that it needs, if you give it the water that it needs. It’s not going to fool you. Mm hmm.

MO 1:37:45
Yeah, I

yeah,

that, um, that one is super good. I’m very glad that, that you share that with us. Because that that one is going to be there’s so many different implications as well as all really good proverbs to write. Um, I’m just, I’m just gonna let people sit with that one and move on to the next question.

Want to leave that on its own?

What is a resource that you’d recommend for those looking to increase their agricultural understandings?

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:38:32
Um, number one, this podcast? Hey, yes. You know, um, there are lots of resources out there, you know, people are so busy. This the, you know, falling the rat race, you know, to make ends meet. But, you know, the good thing with this podcast is that, you know, you can listen to it on your radio, whatever you’re driving, you know, you can download this podcast on your phone, and when you’re driving, and you listen to it. You know, if you come back in the evening, and you’re, after you finish your work, you want to go to bed, you know, you can put this podcast on or you listen to it, you will get educated with whatever you want to learn, you know, concerning agriculture. You know, for for those who are really interested, you know, that there are lots of resources at universities like University of District of Columbia. You know, they have this courses program, where, you know, they document lots of things that people can do, you know, to grow food. So, They’re, you know, for people who are interested, you know, the, it turns of you know that there are lots of places where you can go and find information if you’re really interested. But, you know, things like this podcast, you know, are definitely recommended to, you know, to, you know, to lots of people to, you know, to listen to it. I have listened to some of the the programs that you’ve that you’ve done with the guy somewhere down in Virginia who does vegetables for African markets. The there’s the there’s Mr. The one who, who works for UDC forgotten his name? Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, he’s done a lot of good podcasts. So not only those two, but you know, the one thing about your podcast is because it’s, it’s, you know, it, the scope is wide, you know, it doesn’t only talk about one thing. So, it opens people’s minds, you know, to different things, of doing different things, and, you know, growing food, and, you know, you know, he talks about food, and spirituality. And those are things that, you know, you find in traditional academic institutions, or traditional traditional academic research, you know, for doing different agricultural things. So, for people who want to get a little bit beyond just the one plus one is two, I think your podcast is really, really instructive. And I would encourage people to, you know, to, you know, to listen to it,

MO 1:41:52
I really appreciate that. I really appreciate that Dr. Zama. And, and I have to recommend Amba farmers voice to people as a resource that I’d recommend to people, because of the different ways, especially if you want

to hear some pidgin and learn some pidgin.

as I as I have always wondered about it. And, um, I mean, like I said, now I’m able to hear it, but also be able to understand to increase my understanding of relating to our people, right, because we talk everybody who listens to the podcast heard me talk, um, and, uh, and being able to relate to people and meet people where they are is something that I’ve not always been, I’m not been the best at and, um, and, and I definitely do want to be able to get to more people on the continent. And hearing about the practices as they are practice is extremely beneficial, right, to be able to be able to be able to pull out techniques that can work, wherever, you know, people have heard it on the podcast, that I want to be able to curate a body of information that can work wherever you are on this earth, you know, because a lot of techniques that are talked about are only relevant to somebody living in zone eight, or somebody living in Massachusetts, right, we need to figure out techniques that will work regardless of where you are on the planet, throughout wherever people are, wherever anybody is throughout the diaspora is where these techniques need to work. And the one technique that works throughout the that diaspora is our spirituality. Right? And so, I’m I, like, you know, these sorts of questions come in this way. Because as I kept farming, you know, I kept mean, dreams changed, right? These different these. And my appreciation for life in general, especially the outdoors changed, and it was because not only was I connecting to the universe in a way that you described earlier, extremely poetically, but it is also connecting to my own heritage for the last 500 years, but so to speak, right? Because so much so many people don’t want to don’t want to farm because they consider it slave work.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:44:37
No, no.

MO 1:44:41
It is just the reality that we have to overcome, you know, because as we’re doing this, you are in, in a way, healing that relationship. Yes. Um, and being able to overcome that, you know, Dr. Joy DeGruy talks about it so much in the book, post traumatic slavery syndrome, and the different behaviors that we have been that have been selected for within our people. And I mean, slavery didn’t just happen in the Americas, right? It was obviously going on back home, too, right. Um, and so all of us have these these problems. And although

it may not be the case, for everybody to develop some agricultural prowess, the spirituality will be felt in that way. Because it’s always been the case that there have been blacksmiths, there have already always been people who have done construction, and all of these different things have all of these different spiritual aspects to them, You know what I mean? Well, obviously, you know, but, um, it’s, it’s the case that being able to, just like I said, before, math,

physics is applied math. Chemistry is applied physics, biology is Applied Chemistry in agriculture is applied biology. Right. Right. Um, and what we’re trying to do what I’m trying to do with the podcast, and what you’re helping me do, what we’re trying to do, is being able to apply spirituality. So it’s not just this, you know, we’re not just praying, and we’re not just we’re at, you know, spirituality is to be found through work. Yeah. And, and so, ultimately, like, like I’m saying, a lot of people have criticism, I’ve seen criticism about people like me, although it may not have been directed to me, who get a lot of their understanding about the continent through books. And, and don’t do it. And, and so what I’m saying is that something like ombre farmer’s voice, where you can see where people are doing, see how people are living, and seeing how you can actually benefit people can go a long way to increasing your own agricultural understanding.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:47:21
Yeah, um, you know, you you mentioned something about, you know, the pidgin language. And, you know, what immediately came to my mind is that, you know, you’ve talked about this several li about meeting people where they are. And so, you know, the advantage of the pidgin language is that, I think a couple of years ago, so, there was this year of return. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So, why you have lots of people who were going back to Ghana, you know, Senegal, and you know, all these other places, you know, just, you know, getting up and jumping on the plane, and going to Ghana, without being able to understand how to communicate with the people besides English. It’s not a good thing. So if people have access to teach it in you have in Nigeria, in Ghana, in Sierra Leone, in Liberia, Southern Cameroon’s, they all speak pidgin. So knowing a few words, in Pidgin, from here, before getting on the plane, you know, get to connect it, immediately you get on the ground, you know, you know, get off the plane. So, that is one of the, one of the visions of Amba Farmers voice, that, you know, learning to speak, Yoruba may be difficult, but, you know, Pidgin has, you know, some English words, which you can quickly understand, and using those you can easily communicate with the people when, especially for those who have the, you know, who are continuing the year of the return and, you know, going back to Ghana or to other African countries to settle, you know, this is this could be a way to facilitate, you’re communicating with people on the ground when you get there, and not only communicating with people on the ground, but, you know, learning you know, a new language, you know, Pidgin is not very difficult. So, you know, you may not understand the nuances, but a lot least you can understand, you know, some of the things that are being you know, you know, the pidgin language is English, which is broken them call it broken English. So it is broken, it is broken English and it’s it’s a, it’s a it’s a medium of communication through which you can transmit knowledge easily, particularly for people who haven’t gone to school. It’s a language that you can communicate for, with the grandparents who didn’t go to school, but other kids who have gone to school. So you know, there’s that common language that you can use to, besides you know, the local languages, there’s not pitching that you can use to communicate. So that is, you know, when you’re talking about, you know, pitching that just came to my mind. And secondly, about, you know, people thinking that agriculture or farming is slave work. Could be true. But, again, for those of us who are not getting by live, now, it is not slave work, because during slavery, you were forced to do whatever you had to do. But now, it’s your choice to grow lettuce, or grow something. So it is not really slave, but it’s actually weaning yourself off that level, that were meant, think about that it was slave work, right. So it is detoxifying ourselves from that slavery mentality that we grew up with, that we know we’re being forced to, you know, to do this, or to grow this to grow this, because we need to stay alive. So you’re forced, but now, it’s your choice. So I think it is really relieving or breaking those chains of that past that we’re forced to.

MO 1:52:10
Absolutely, um, it oftentimes with certain conflicts that we had the only way to overcome them is to somewhat barrel right in to them. Right. And, and, and this is this is that right? Overcoming that notion of like, because before before, before the enslavement era, I mean, there was rice, it was, you know, rice Coast pepper coast, right. All these different because of the because of the agricultural prowess. So in that way, we’re connecting with our heritage beyond the last 500 years.

Dr. Isaac Zama 1:53:01
Yes. Absolutely.