Charles Southward of IGH Gardens

Charles is the founder of IGH Gardens in Los Angeles, California. I first came across him by way of his instagram account, a picture linked below with him and a bag of blood meal and the shiniest Swiss Chard I have ever seen. I am really excited for you to hear his wisdom!

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Transcript (automated)

MO 0:00
Peace, I am Mason Olonade and this is Jigijigi Africulture Podcast. Here we believe building a healthy soil builds a healthy soul and we share strategies for how to do both. To do both, we ask two questions. How do you grow while you grow kale, collards, tomatoes, melons? And why do you think the healthiest soils are black?

We’re so excited today to have Charlie Southward on. I came across Charlie on his Instagram page ighgardens in God’s hands. It is Gardens is the is just the username. And like we were just talking about right before the show,

Charlie had been growing the largest greens that I had ever seen. And I remember that he had one one particular picture which we may use for the show of him with a huge bag of blood meal or bone meal. And I asked him about it and and he was telling me that that was at that point in time that that was the key. And so and and as in talking, I also found that the Charlie is quite proficient; I don’t know if he’s has the has the official title of the pitmaster. But Charlie, Charlie’s the man when it comes to these ribs. So I’m excited to meet Charlie in the future and in person and to taste those ribs and everything like that. I’m really excited to have him on the show. And so I say, welcome.

CS 1:28
Well, thank you very, very much. Oh, that introduction was great. It’s quite again, you have me and the crowd, you’re not thinking of a point of mystery, so maybe I better enlighten them a little bit about what you’re saying about the barbecue. Okay. Yes,

he’s quite correct. My name is Charlie southward. Back in the day they called me Charlie was a barbecue Master, and worked solely in the entertainment industry in the recording industry. And I was fortunate and blessed to have that opportunity.

I’ve had the pleasure of working with, you know, most of the major jazz musicians Miles Davis, Grover Washington Jr. Luther Vandross, Marvin Gaye, Rick James, Bobby Brown and New Edition, Judas Priest, lots and lots of people, lots of people, Flock of Seagulls, a lot of people and I did that for about 15 years in the state of Arizona, I was the only black entertainment caterer in the whole state. Which was quite challenging, to say the least. But it was a very, very rewarding career. I’m still I’m very fortunate and glad to be alive. You know, because I did what the rockstars did too you know, everybody get into it. But I did it also, you know, so it’s kind of true what they say about the life. But I’ve learned a lot I’ve met some wonderful, wonderful people that are still around. And I’m happy and very excited about getting back into that industry. Right after I get this one off the ground. So today we’re going to talk about gardening and I’m anxious to answer the questions that you have before me. And let the people know how I came about in establishing IGH Gardens.

MO 3:27
Perfect. So when did you first realize you were supposed to have your hands in the soil?

CS 3:34
Well, I’ve started gardening when I was five years old. I had an aunt her name was Angie. And she could grow anything and everything. She had the most immaculate and beautiful front yard with flowers and grass and and the backyard was full of fruit trees and vegetables. Everything was just incredible. So I tried my hand at it at five I saw potatoes, you know, you know in the covered numbers shooting the eyes out of it, you know and so I dug the eyes out and planted by the water spigot you know all the way down and dug a little trench and water it every day. I love, I used to love to watch the water run down. And so the potatoes came up and they grew real lush and everything. And then they just you know, kind of keeled over. So I dug them up, I saw a little Potato Head and and I had you know quite a nice little harvest of potatoes. They were small, but they were very good. And so I you know, I rushed them in the house and told my mother about them And she let me prepare them with her and gave me the opportunity. She let know first time she let me get on a chair and start cooking. So I started cooking when I was five years old too. So ever since then, I’ve always had been growing, planting and growing something you know, and you know at the time I thought it was just for fun. But you know, I didn’t realize that as a people that we were quite financially, you know, insufficient and, you know, that was a necessity. You know, by having a backyard garden and something growing, I didn’t realize that at the time, but that’s when I started age five. And I’ve been doing it ever since.

MO 5:14
You know, it’s it’s a, it’s a thing, I guess for most people that I generally have on the show that a lot of them tend to start early. And I guess is similar for me, having watched my parents have, you know, just some some things growing in the backyard, and stuff like that. And, and that kind of curiosity, it seems to stay stay with all of us for the rest of our lives.

CS 5:39
Yes, you know, I would say, you know, as a people, we have a long, long history in this comp, country. And I’ve been, you know, led, you know, to think that, you know, God placed this talent in me long, long ago, you know, long ago, even before my conception. So, I believe, you know, that we as a people, you know, been in this country a long time. And, you know, there are things that we have done for so long that I think it’s just, you know, it becomes a part of us, and we excel at those things, you know, and, you know, we just need the opportunity, you know, to be let out, you know what I mean? To blossom. You know, but it’s a struggle, you know, because I struggled in the entertainment industry, because I was the only black caterer in the whole state. You know, that was a real real struggle. But we, I overcame, I’ll put it that way. You know, I had a service that was needed, and it was in demand and I refuse to let anybody stop me from taking care of my clients. So I think you have to have grit and determination in anything that you do? That you have a passion for.

MO 6:53
Absolutely, absolutely. So so so what what all do you have growing on this year at at IGH Gardens?

CS 7:05
Well, IGH gardens are founded in 2014. At the Salvation Army build shelter for the homeless in Bell California. That shelter is the largest homeless shelter in the state of California so far. AT capacity, it has about 500 people. Of course during the Coronavirus, you know the population is much lower than that right now. But my job was to to raise organic vegetables and supply them to the kitchen. And they gave me allowed me to occupy about 1100 square feet and produce collard greens as my main crop you know, in the wintertime, along with kale, mustard greens, turnips, beets, Swiss chard, and also Collard Trees. Collard trees, you know, grow very good here in Los Angeles, and in Southern California, I don’t know, I guess they do grow good in Florida, I’ve seen some there, you know, in pictures, but I have that also. And I managed to produce about 3900 pounds a season which is spring/summer I mean summer well throughout the year, out of that spot. So you know, in the in the spring, I change over to cayenne chili peppers, jalapeno, cucumbers, eggplant, okra, my kale last until June. And my collards depending on the heat will last until the late April or early June. And then I’ve replaced that with okra and some watermelon and okra last all the way till early October.

So I’ll have I do whats seasonal and what grows in my area. You know, it’s not you know, that’s what I do. I try not to grow anything that is super exotic or or I’m not accustomed to my zone. You know, I’ve just grown what is knowing what goes prolifically in my zone because I like production, you know, I have a job to do with feeding the homeless. And so it’s about the output what I get in weight. And so I’m also add to this year, you know, this is our six year, my six year doing this, I started it financially, solely on my social security for five years. And now the community is accepting and what we do, and we’re trying to expand to a larger location, so about seven times bigger than what I have, and we’re working very hard on that. But we’re really, really happy with the way things are going and how the community has accepted us. We’ve just taken on too long shelters. These are women and children’s shelters, victims of homelessness and domestic violence. And so they have cooking facilities and stuff in there. And so we will be providing fresh baked vegetables to them. Hopefully at least twice a month, you know, from here on out, we’re really happy to add them tomorrow services, we also drop the Los Angeles area, they’ve established community refrigerators, where the people in need and can come and you know, and get food, you know, that they don’t have because of the pandemic and everything. And I’ve been fortunate enough to hit three refrigerators in Los Angeles so far, in the most desperate areas. And it’s really sad to say, every time I’ve gone and they’ve been completely empty, I can’t say that corporate America, or even corporate California has been helping helping this out this separate out at all, I can’t say that, because I don’t see anything in the refrigerator. And I’m really, really happy to be iVh garden, you know, making an effort to help the people.

MO 11:14
Yeah, the the work that you’re doing, I mean, I’m getting chills talking about just even being able to acknowledge it, I had no idea that you were, you know, doing all all that you are doing. I didn’t even know that like the community refrigerators existed, I my knowledge failed in that regard. But you know, and it is, it is super impressive. And it is it is it is disappointing. What you are doing is is super impressive. And conversely, it is very disappointing that, you know, we can see all this thriving going on in California, but all the people are are deprived in that same capacity. And you know, and I am thankful for you and people like you that you’re able to do this stuff to get this food, you know, to people

CS 12:06
well, it’s my pleasure I feel it’s, you know, much You know, my duty, you know, I feel, I’m doing God’s work. I named the garden IGH Gardens in God’s hands, because I truly believe that that’s what it is and what I know, and my mission is to, to help the disabled, under serving, disadvantaged, you know helpless and homeless. I have a gardening style that, you know, is basically the same as everyone else. I, you know, I I, you know, use organic fertilizers, organic only.

But I grow according to Biblical instructions. And those instructions are available to everyone around the world freely. And I invite people, you know, if they want to put it to the test, I’ll put it that way, I put it to the test. And it works. God said you will live by the sweat of your brow. And he meant that, you know, so I, I just follow those instructions. And you know, he takes it from there. And the results are you know are evident. You know, for those who want to see they can follow me on Instagram @Ighgardens. And My website is But truly put that into practice. It works.

And my next year will be my seventh year if I’m at that location. And I have two garden spots. And so one is has been planted for six years, and one has been planted for four and a half I would say. So when I get to the seventh year, one side of my garden will not be planted, it will stay fallow for an entire year. Because that’s according to God’s instruction. So I will be putting that to the test also if I’m at that location another year. So I’m hoping that I’m not so that I can you know, be at a new location and grow more and more because I’m on an existing farm That is not to perse an operation right now, but I’m the only one operating on that location is acre and a half and it’s not running right. So I’m sorry to say that but I’m happy that I’m able to to satisfy the homeless after the shelter at this time until they get back in with you know, IGH is holding their home there and I’m very very happy that they’re satisfied with us. And you know and happy but we know that the Salvation Army Bell shelter you know, gifted me with that area six years ago, you know, we both then lived up to door to our end of the deal. So, you know, my hat’s off to them, the Salvation Army too.

MO 15:11
have a bit of a maybe a little bit theological kind of question. When when you’re talking about if you want to let the you know, approaching approaching the seventh year at the plot, right, and you wanted to have it lay fallow for that for that for a whole year? Would you would would it be out of bounds, I guess to plant like, like cover crops or something in in the fallow state?

CS 15:45
Well, I wouldn’t be I wouldn’t be paying attention very well, if I did that would I? The instructions are plain and simple and they’re complete. There you know, there really is no deviation. If it says leave it alone, leave it alone. So, you know, and that’s what God, you know, let God do what he do. The one thing I think that man, you know, you know, there’s a problem with I mean, yes, we are little G’s. But we have to stay plugged into the big source, in order to realize what we really are. The Little G’s, you see, we lose our way when we get when we get big headed, and think that we’re running everything.

That’s what’s wrong with the food industry now. And many things that man put his hand on and try to over, do, you know, try to outdo God, you can’t see. And that’s one of the reasons we’re facing a lot of problems in the food in the chemicalizations and other problems that’s in our bodies. And that’s one of the reasons because we try to maximize and supersize everything we should be letting God do what he do. The instructions are there. Like I put it to the test, and it works, year in and year out. And people are amazed by it. I don’t really talk about it too much. Because people don’t believe it. So, you know, I just put it out there. That’s my invitation. You know, I’m not really a Bible beater, but I do have faith and I believe, you know, that’s my belief and my faith and my offer, for those of us who is interested to seek it out for themselves, because it’s right there.

MO 17:16
I see. Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s nobody can be any more efficient than how nature already makes it work. And so how have you grown while growing all that you got going on? Meaning? How is your well being improved by being in the soil?

CS 17:40
Well, I feel like I’m basically at one when I’m out there with the one, you know. I, I’ve always had the ability to visualize, I see the crop before it’s even out of the ground, I can see it at its beginning stage, and I see it at a very end stage. You know, before, you know, I’d see it, you know, it’s almost like a, you know, an artist with a, that paints a painting, you know, they see what they’re going to paint before it’s even on the canvas. So, that’s, I see it, you know, that’s how I garden. My just reward and fulfillment that I get is at harvest time, you know, after I allow God to do what I do, only thing I can do is be the caretaker, you know, but he does it.

MO 18:35
I just more recently, I’ve been gaining that sort of ability to see just, you know, from from, from germination at the, at the farm, that that I’ve been volunteering at, we planted some cover crops. And I could tell just from how I guess it, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s so difficult to describe these sorts of things quantitatively right, it can only really be done qualitatively. But it seemed to be just from the vigor of the seedlings. I was like, yeah, this is gonna be this is gonna work. And, you know, we that was maybe late October when we when we started putting those out there and we met some people in early or in late December. And man, we looked at those the those beds where the cover crop was planted, and it even surprised me more than then I could have imagined that I was like, oh man did the vigor with with with these, uh, with this crimson clover. It was just it was surprising and, and I hadn’t really thought about it in the way in that way until you just mentioned it just now. It was like, Oh, yeah, I’m, I’m really just starting to see to develop that. That that sense of visualization. It’s very interesting.

CS 20:02
Well, you know, you’re talking about cover crops, I don’t there’s nothing wrong with cover crops Don’t get me wrong, you know me, you know, because like, just like we’re not, you know, you know, leaving his fallow, you know, as, not as a time of the year goes mind, you know what is being fallow, that nature is going to put its own cover crop back there anyway. Yeah, it’s gonna come back, you see, and people don’t you know, and I believe me, I’m all for trying to put a little extra umph in my garden, you know, thinking that I’m going to make it grow better, you know, I’m only human, you know. And so what I’ve learned about plants and gardening and growing, is that plants are just like us, they require the same thing that we need. Air, light, food, and water, and care and attention. Yeah, so same thing. So if you have that in abundance, then they’re going to take in what they need when they need it, and do exactly what you’re supposed to do, and give back to you, you know, tenfold 20 fold, just like the Bible says, you know, you know, from that one seed. so but like i said, you know, I get I kind of get carried away with myself sometime too thinking about cover crops and, and, you know, the use of feather meal and this kind of stuff with me, everybody has a thing. But you know, everything in life lives and dies, you know, and goes back into the soil, you see, what is the natural cycle of life. You see? So, you know, it’s going to occur anyway. So, you know, or anything we can do, you know, embellishing it a little bit, I think it’s okay. But you know, I don’t think we should get carried away, you know, what over embellish in anything, you know, you’re trying to replace with nature itself, or supersize, or make nature work in a freakish way for us, you know, I don’t think that we should do that.

MO 22:06
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that’s, that’s, that’s sort of the the sort of that I mean, I’m not even really all that dogmatic about them. Because I agree with you, like, you know, the, what is it they say, nature abhors a vacuum, right? And so you know, and, and the same thing, you know, Mother Nature will fill in the gaps, because she’s not trying to, she’s not trying to have you know, just like, just like your, your body covers up open wounds. And I sort of feel that same way about about the soil, I’m not equating the soil to necessarily an open wound. But what I am saying is that the gap will be filled at some point in time. And, you know, in certain instances, like, like at the farm, the reason why we plant crimson clover as opposed to anything else, is because there’s so much crabgrass everywhere. And, you know, we got it, we have to protect our investment in the land, so that we’re not fighting cover, not fighting crabgrass all year long, you know?

CS 23:07
That goes, that goes back to what I said about what God says about us living by the sweat of our brow, you can always have something to do, you got to do it, there’s always gonna be competition, you know, with something, you know, the days of protection, and bliss. You know, we gave that up a long, long, long, long time ago. So we got to live this out. And, you know, it’s gonna work, you know, you know, it’s gonna work. Yeah. With the, so,. I’m saving the rest, one of the one of the questions you’re gonna ask me I wanna say that, but I’m gonna wait for you ask me before I put that out.

MO 23:48
All right, well, we’ll advance it right along then. Do you believe that we as black folk have a special relationship with the soil? And if so, how do we potentially get that special relationship?

CS 24:03
I do believe that. We as black people have a special relationship with the soil. I believe indigenous people have a special relationship with soil. I believe in people that has any ounce of spiritualization or spirituality in order to win in touch with you. But you asked me about black people so, Yes, I believe that and I believe the only thing that we can, you know, we can look back at it’s basically history. We did everything. You know, don’t you think it that’d be something that is inherent in our in our genes? you know, for hundreds of years we cook we clean we grew, sowed, built? The whole nine yards, you see, so I don’t understand why when a person of color excels, you know, at something that they aren’t immediately you know,pounced upon, and, or, you know, other concept or whatever it is or stolen, you know, and and manipulate it and used you know, and cashed out, you know, but by others I won’t call out nobody.

But I do believe that as a black people, we have a special connection because of our history. You know, and our basic great need of survival. You see. I really believe that. So we’ve been through a lot of trials and tribulations I think through history. You know, I think we have gotten the short end of the stick most of the time. You know, I’m not saying that, that the powers that be didn’t try to own up to what our country should be they did, Lincoln tried, you know, and, you know, it almost worked, you know, you know, it took me years to figure out what Reconstruction really meant, you know. But when I started finding out about the black representatives and senators and stuff that was elected back in those days, I started wondering how they did elected? who voted him in office? So when reconstruction, came, and all this happening, and the carpetbaggers, took the votes and throw them out, and everything. And that’s where we started, you know, pretty much anything, we’ve always wanted to be a part of the American mainstream and sharing the American dream, we did it, like black Wall Street, in many places have been burned out stretches of successes that we had, you know, been taken from us, you know, but yet we love this country, you know, but you know, it’s just don’t this country love us? No, no, you know, but you know, I just keep on fighting and keep on striving, because I know, God is love and, you know, I’m loved by Him and the only I can do is love. So love is gonna win overall, you know, as historical point from historical standpoint, what you asked me, I really believe that, you know, the answer is yes.

MO 26:58
so for the So, you know, like, so how do you how do you think that we improve upon that, upon that special relationship? It is it is it as simple as, as just, you know, putting our hands in the soil and growing more, and trying more, what do you what is your opinion?

CS 27:13
Well, my opinion is trial and error. And I mean, I grow on by faith, you know, follow the instructions on the package, but I let God do the rest. In nature, nature is at work, you know, we can’t see what’s going on underneath that ground. But we know it’s happening. You see, so, you know, the only thing we could be is good stewards of the Earth, the Bible said, We are stewards. And that’s what we should be as good stewards for the planet, you know the planet will take care of us, if we take care of it. So I don’t really think it’s complicated, you know, you know, but you have to be a tremendous will and desire, you know, and a joy to do this, you know, you know, you have to like it, you know, I mean, you know, I think, any kind of job or anything, that people you know, want to work, they have to enjoy what they work on, or they’ll be miserable. You know, nobody wants to work for a living and be in misery all the time. And don’t worry and hate what they do. You know, so, you know, for those that have found, you know, a calling or, you know, what they like to do in life and are able to make money at it, you know, they earn bliss, you know, I mean, I am so you know, and it’s just get started for the month, you know, this is not about money. For me. It’s about service.

MO 28:23
Yeah, yeah. So the thing, the the what you were saying about the about? You, you show? Was it? Exactly? By the, by the sweat of your brow? Can you can you say the passage again.

CS 28:38
God said you will live by the sweat of your brow? And that’s what we got? Yeah, we got through our, okay. Right. So that means we have to labor and we have to be, you know, we’re not going to get our just reward from the ground without going through the thorns and thistles and all that, you know, the reminder of our error, where we made a mistake. You see, it’s all reminders of what we did in the beginning. Okay. So, and this is why we didn’t say that we would, that we, you know, we wouldn’t be blessed, you know, we were, you know, that we wouldn’t, you know, have bouchy but we’re gonna have a sweat board. And I believe that series number is true, you know, because there’s not going to get you to miraculously happen. You see, you know, for us, based on whether based on this based on what a lot of things you’re gonna have to work for it, you got to put in, you know, you have to put an effort in, it’s just not going to happen. We don’t live in a, in a world where it’s perfect weather all the time, it rains, just the right amount, and no weeds go up and everything. It’s not like that anymore. So, so, that’s why that passage is very important to me, you know, and it’s also true.

MO 29:54
Yeah, that’s, you know, when most of the growing that I’ve had done prior to To working at three sisters market, um, had been more so experimental and trying to figure out what I could grow, like really within a city and within a backyard and stuff like that and feed myself just a little bit. But now that we are in now that I am doing agriculture for production, because we’re, we’re feeding the people out here in the in West Boulevard corridor, it’s a whole different, it’s a whole different type of labor. And it’s very interesting. Having to, you know, like, like the one we sold, we’re so we’re like we had where the farm is located right across the street from the library, which was an early polling facility. And so our polling facility or polling place, and so when they had the first week of early voting is here during the elections, the farm from, you know, Monday to Saturday had already sold 50 pounds of collards, and, you know, we only have got like, maybe a quarter a quarter of an acre, we don’t have that, that much space, and we maybe had maybe about 15 rows of collardss, maybe about 20 feet long and it was just, it was intense. And I remember the day that I picked about maybe 15 pounds of collards. And all I did was sleep for the rest of the day, cuz it was I was I was beat after that. But it was a it was, you know, that nap was probably one of the most rewarding naps that I’ve had in a long time.

CS 31:35
Yes, it is quite rewarding, you know, to I use a wheelbarrow when I, when I harvest, I used to get between 45 and 50, 60 pounds, you’re not in a wheelbarrow, you know, and that, you know, that takes about, I can do that in a month, you know, produce that month and clip it all at once the whole thing, and then the next month, I’ll have another 50 or 60, 70 pounds again, you know, I mean, so I’ve been doing it for so long, you know, I mean, you know, it’s like almost like a science now, you know, I mean, I know what what my output is going to be, you know, you know, and you know, sometimes I have trouble, because we have rabbits out there. And which I’ve done, I’ve gotten rid of rid of them. But you know, I’ve got some fish out. But right now, I’m in a battle with the gophers, it seems like I’ve won that battle, you know, I’ve gotten rid of them. And they haven’t done damage. And I didn’t kill them either, I’d use a no, ultrasonic sound. To get rid of them, it took a while, but it works. And so, you know, and we got coyotes out there. So they come along and wait on the gophers too. But, you know, we have all that out there to contend with. You know, I remember, before they had the facial sense, I’d go out there four, five o’clock in the morning and see the coyotes blue eyes in the darkness. You know what I mean? You know, they don’t bother me, because they’re scared of people, you know, they just run off, but I’m out there in the City of Los Angeles right out in the wild nature is right around us. You know, I’m kind of like out and we’re in the warehouse district basically. And there’s a lot of open area, coyotes and they run out, they come down, they really do come out. It’s wonderful being out in nature. It’s just wonderful. So I kind of got off the track, and we were talking about weight and collard greens way Sorry about that.

MO 33:34
It’s no problem. I had no idea that that, um, that, that that coyotes will be out there. And it’s sort of in a warehouse district. But you know, one of the one of the things that I always say, especially when faced with environmental stressor, or stressors and, and and, you know, especially pest pest pressure, I always say that everybody’s got to eat, you know, and

CS 33:59
that’s true, you know, but when you’re in you know, like, I mean, I don’t believe in killing animals. But believe me, that’s a battle if you’re getting into a fight with a garden, and some gophers trouble if you let the gophers get the other hand, the upper hand, you know, you’re really in trouble, you see, and they’ll destroy it, you know, and so you have to get them to get them out of there by hook or crook or you’re not going to have a garden in a matter of weeks. Because they’re gonna they’re gonna put so many tunnel under it the whole root structure, you know, it’s gone, you know, because there’s so many tunnels and everything under the roots are exposed underneath the ground, you know, and, you know, (and die) start from the top. I mean, it’s incredible. You know, if you’re plants are small enough and you’re out there watching pull em up, right underneath the nose pull up right down in the in front of you go right down the hole. So, so you have to stay on top of that to make sure you don’t have that and I lucked out and they have the sonic blasters or whatever their solar operated And I have to say it works. Now, it took a while I was complaining, I got 12 of them, you know, but I was complaining to the company and me, Well, you know, you’re just give it some time and I did. And so but it’s working. So I have to, I’m happy because I do not like to kill anything, you know, like that. So I’m happy to say that, that’s one thing that science has come up with that I think is beneficial.

MO 35:28
Yeah, that’s really cool. There was, um, there. on a previous episode, I was talking to one of my friends about ultrasound and, and, and also like, infrasound. And, and what what opportunities they may offer to to plants. Because sort of my, my, sort of looking into that was that, you know, if, you know, at least with my houseplants, right, I can see that they are thriving, by the way that I care for them. Like you said that, you know, they need the, I meant to mention mentioned this, but I don’t think I do a lot of people do forget about that plants also need attention, like you were saying, and, and so I sing to my plants when I can, and everything like that. And so I was seeing basically thinking like, Okay, well, if, if these plants are responding in this way, to me, you know, offering, you know, whatever vibrations are coming, by the way and moving the air through the notes that I’m singing, I wonder if the very, very orchestrated ultrasound and something like that can do something to arrange and, and, and, and work for, in a different sort of a more, I guess, mechanical fertilizing thing, because it’s not so much of not so much of giving the plant something. But, um, but that’s, that’s a whole nother thing. But, but

CS 36:53
I’m with you, I really believe that plants are sensitive to sound, and I believe that music has a definite impact on them. I used to play music in my plants all the time to know, I believe that, you know, you know, the music does have an effect, I think your your attitude, your vibrations, your awareness, or your your calmness, or your peace, the peace, the peace that comes off of you is picked up by the plants, I really believe that, you know, they, they feel you like you feel them. So, I really believe that. And so, you know, because I’ve walked through my plants, and I touched them, and I look at them, and I get really into them to see what’s going on, you know, if there’s aphids if its anything, you know, in there, or doing something that harming, you know, or something that I might be able to learn that I’ve never noticed before. So I, I pay very close attention to him. But music, I think they are very sensitive to just our presence, you know, I really believe that. So I think you’re on the right track when it comes to singing to them, I really do.

MO 38:08
Thank you. I am I really liked what you said and I, I have to go back into the, to the recording to get the exact thing but you said something like the you know, the piece that comes off of you is felt by your plants. And I really liked the way that that you said that because I in in some of the consulting that I’ve done for people when they’ve been worried about their plants, or whatever I come in, and I see that everything is fine, you know? And then I’m asking them, how what do you feel like when you’re when you’re with your plants? You know, like what what are you? What are you projecting on on to them and everything like that, because if you can see, you know, something like, one of one of one of my clients, she had these peace lilies that were so glossy, I thought it I thought it was fake. I couldn’t believe it, you know, and and just so healthy. Everything was standing right up. And it was almost, it was it was exalted, I’d say and, and she was like, Well, I’m not sure if it’s, you know, if it’s growing, you know how it should be and I’mlike, Are you kidding?

This this you couldn’t have found this is almost like within the realm of the forms of what a piece Lily is supposed to look like. You know and and, and so but there have been other people were like especially, I talked about this on the very first episode with my mom, where she was convinced she had she she couldn’t keep anything going. And so, you know, we found the right plants to keep it going. And it was just merely the confidence of having one plant survive past the third week that really changed her entire perception about what it is to be in the care of plants and also to be cared for by plants, right

CS 40:00
Right. Mm hmm.

MO 40:02
You know, because, right,

CS 40:04
because they do care for us, I mean, and you know, and they, you know, you get a joy, I get a joyous feeling every time I’m out there, you know, I’m just, you know, overwhelmed with peace, and joy, and peace, positive thoughts. And, you know, my mind just starts, you know, you know, creating it, I get very creative, even in thought, you know, about future about what’s next. But, you know, everything in my mind is opens up, you know, and, you know, and I’m enveloped by everything, you know, including the plants, you know, I feel like I’ve become a part of that. So, you know, you know, and I guess that, you know, to other people’s amazement, I really don’t have a problem, you know, growing anything that I grow, because I’ve, you know, I just have a knowledge of things to know that they’re gonna, you know, that I’ve done everything that they placed everything there that they need. And, you know, and all that I can do with that is back up and let let spirit take it, you know, and it does what it’s supposed to do. You know, so, you know, as long as I’m, you know, doing my part by being a good steward, you know, of all the plants that are going to do their part. But I have to do mine, and backup, you know, because I can only do so much, you know, and you put the you know, it’s almost like raising a kid, you know, you know, once the kid is raised and he starts starts crawling, and he starts, you know, any starts walking, you know, you know, you don’t have to stand there and hold them no more. They’re on their own.

MO 41:39
I’ve thought about them recently. I thought about it because the plants are, you know, so much older than us. I was thinking that you know, I wanted to move people away from I guess kind of treating plants like babies or something or pets and I was saying you know, plants are really kind of like our older brothers and sisters almost and so you you really wouldn’t dote on your on your older brother, older sister, you know, you you give them what they need when they ask for it and then you let them do whatever they do, you know, and and and especially with working having that sort of coming to that understanding very recently with my plants um, a lot of them continue to surprise me because I haven’t been so much like oh my gosh, what’s going on what’s going on? And then you know, once I’m like I they’re all right, you know, they’ll make it and and, and they do

CS 42:36
yeah, they’re amazing. Absolutely amazing.

MO 42:40
Charlie What do you think the healthiest soils are black?

CS 42:47
Well, I’ve been thinking about that. And why I think the healthiest soils on black Okay, I think I’m mixing black let’s take the color black. The basic color for all the other colors is black. All life you know is alive and then it dies and decomposes and decomposes. Means darkness richness fertile ness. So the blacker the soil the better it is the better ingredients for the reproduction and the recreation of life plant life comes from black, which means it comes from the fertile it comes from life that has died and decomposed and is putting new life the food of new life back into the ground for the seeds to regenerate to new life. You see so that’s one of the reasons I believe that the best soils are done although now I live in California were in Los Angeles where the soil is sandy loam, okay which is a sandy light brown color of Sand. when it drains very very deep, okay. So I have to work by the sweat of my brow to make my dirt my soil dark. In other words, I have to work it in there. So I have to work it in there. So I have to go get whatever decomposed material if there is whether it’s these from around the farm chicken manure, decomposition is a key in nature does it on its own, you know, but since we are working on the ground working and working in on constantly, you know, we have to you know, add a little bit more than the nature of can put in it. You know, at the rate. I don’t live on the east coast of where its of heavy trees and and lots of leaf falling all the time. We don’t have it like that here. We have trees and leaves but nothing like what I think about out, you’re in the east coast aren’t you, in the south?.

MO 45:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m in North Carolina in Charlotte. Yeah.

CS 45:11
And Charlotte, North Carolina. Okay. Well, hello, Charlotte. I’ve never been there. But I heard it’s a beautiful, beautiful place. excellent place to grow something from the plants that I have seen. So, but that’s why I believe the best soils are dark, you know, because it’s natural. And you know, and it’s just what it is. I hope I answered that. The best of everybody, you know, thought that’s just how I think about it.

MO 45:41
Well, that’s why we have you we went we went the we went the best of your thought, and that’s what you gave us. Our podcast is based on this Yoruba owe or proverb, Jigijigi ko see fa tu, A firmly rooted plant cannot be uprooted.. What is your favorite agriculture or plant related proverb? Or saying?

CS 46:05
As far as what you just said about a plant that can’t be uprooted? Are you asking me what plants that I would think that would be?

MO 46:14
I mean, you feel free to answer that question. Feel free to answer that. But the question that I’m asking you is, what’s your What’s your favorite plant related proverb?

CS 46:26
Ah, I’m dont know, I was just gonna say, the okra plant, you know, because the okra plant is a you know, once it gets gets in the ground, and everything is really hard to get out. You know, it’s very sturdy, and it’s very prolific. But, no, I don’t have a proverb per se. Based on, you know, the gardening, outside of, you know, going into gardener and, you know, first thing I do, when I get there is I say, the Lord’s Prayer. And, and then I commune with God, you know, for the rest of the time that I’m there in the silence. I believe, you know, of, you know, you get a better connection, and the silence, you know, you know, stillness, you know, and I tried to, you know, that’s where I connect with God, in the stillness, and the quietness of my mind, you know, and I’m getting right there, you can get it anywhere, you know, because all you have to do is go inside yourself, but I enjoy doing it there. I guess that would be my problem beyond what I would, you know, what I do on a daily, you know, I say, the Lord’s Prayer, and then I go into the silence.

MO 47:41
I found that I found that myself, I mean, they there is so much going on at the garden that it’s kind of like, it can be overwhelming to, to, to have music going on at the same time, because you, you have to hear almost how the wind moves through the plants. And especially where we are, because we got a lot of trees around, we got a lot of birds around. And, and you want to hear how the birds are kind of singing and interacting. And, and especially because we also have bees,you gotta you need to be able to hear for when those bees are getting close to you.

CS 48:26
While I’m glad, we don’t have that problem here like that. I mean, I’ve gotten stung a couple of times, but nothing, nothing like that. I mean, the wintertime when you’re out here in California, one of my favorite because, you know, and here in LA when it gets really nice and cool. Even the flies go away. You know what I mean, so. You know, that’s one thing I like about being too many flies. But I’ve been in other places and other states where I can’t even stand to go outside. I mean, I mean, but I guess I’m not I wouldn’t make a great farmer in some other places, but I’m really blessed to be here because I’m not you know, a big bug fan. You know what I mean? Especially the ones that make noise Yeah,

MO 49:12
yeah, the Yeah, I remember one day we were the the most recent time that I got stung. I took a beekeeping class in college and didn’t get stung the entire semester. But being out here with the with the bees that we’re keeping it at the farm, they were doing a hive kind of consolidation and and the bees did not like that and you know every now and again

CS 49:39
Yeah, like you know, there we go horning in on something where we supposed to be in you know what I mean, they knew what they was doing

MO 49:48
it was almost like, you know, when when you hear somebody playing music off in the distance, you can hear the bass or whatever, but it was like that. As soon as you there’s there’s kind of the the garden is kind of terraced and so when you got is like basically like four levels and once you got up to the third level you could kind of hear this very faint buzz. But if you can hear that and you’re nowhere near the bees that’s like a warning, you know like, don’t get any closer.

CS 50:17
Oh my god. Yeah. Wow, that’s incredible.

MO 50:23

CS 50:25
There’s we got quite a few honey farmers out here too, but I’ve never been there. I know one lady that I grew some grass corn for. She raises bees and stuff like that, but I don’t think I could do it. I’ll just stick with the plan. I mean, I don’t think I could do this through no bees and stuff. But yeah, y’all been demented and handle it and everything I know, it’s a beautiful thing. You know, the flowers and everything that they did they survive all over us have an incredible, beautiful, beautiful area for them.

MO 50:56
Oh, yeah, I mean, we have some, some lantana bushes that generally get about like eight feet wide, because of because of those bees, and everything, everything gets really prolific. The bees don’t really have to travel all that far to go get anything at all, because they’re there and they’re in there pollinating everything, but if I had it my way, although I do enjoy, enjoy, enjoy the honeybees being there. For for a public setting that the beat that the farm is the the the the the bees are kind of the kind of a liability in that regard. Like in the day that we saw that saw them, I would try and raise solitary bees, or more native bees like like mason bees or, or the various the various solitary bees that you can prop up. And they don’t have, they don’t sting. And they really, there really are like leafcutter bees and stuff like that there that will really stay out of the way. Because they really don’t want to interact with you.

CS 52:06
I guess they want to stay alive. I know, once they sting you, it’s over for them. So they know, wow. What an amazing conversation. I’m so honored. You know, this is my first podcast, I’ve never, you know, I’m quite honored to be exposed like this, you know, I’ve never been questioned this way before. And I’m really, really happy to be on your show. It’s a blessing to me. And you know, you’re you’re exposing me to the, to the country. And I’m really happy about that. I’m really happy that you reached out to me.

MO 52:42
I’m really glad that you that you responded, So immediately. And I mean, it’s not just the country, because every I look at some of the stats that we’ve got going on. And last last sometime in 2020. We had listeners in Sweden, and somebody in Indonesia, and, and the year before that we had people and some people in India, Switzerland. So you know, I, you know, we’re really, you know, you and I together are exposing ourselves to the real, the real, the larger, the larger population as a whole

CS 53:23
Wow its interesting. You know, I have a dear friend, her name is Victoria. She’s from Sweden. She’s a film director. And she made a documentary about IGH Gardens, I’m gonna send you the link to the show. And for your viewing pleasure, it’s it’s not released yet. She’s still working on the soundtrack. But it is going to be shown in film festivals around the world as far as her professor told her where they’re going to place it. So I was very honored to be up and coming. And I think you’ll like it. It’s called Charlie’s garden.

MO 54:01
Man. Everything’s coming up, Charlie, man, you got it. You got it. You got it. Got a documentary about you got a podcast about you. What’s next man?

CS 54:09
Well, I don’t know. I’ve had a lot happen in my life. You know, I was, you know, outside of being an educator in the cotton industry. I was lucky enough or dizzy. I was in a movie with Nicolas Cage. And you know, everybody saw it. It was all racing, Arizona. It’s all movie now. But I was in it with him and John Goodman. I had pleasure meeting him. And making movies is hard work. Now I’m gonna tell you that it wasn’t easy. I mean, I didn’t even have a speaking part. But I was in prison scene and you know, I had to sit right next to Nicholas Cage, um, you know, they were focused on this Marlboro cigarette that I was smoking. And after about 15 takes I had a headache because I had to have a cigarettein such and such a way and have it in my finger to such and such a way I didn’t realize it got putting a film together like that was so intricate. So, but it made me have appreciation for television and film, you know, a lot more than I did before I had the opportunity of being in one. So I’ve had a really interesting life and, you know, I feel like it’s just the beginning. It’s not the end. It’s like it’s just the beginning. So, I’m gonna onward and forward as they say,

MO 55:24
what is the title of this movie?

CS 55:27
It was called raising Arizona.

MO 55:29
Oh, raising Arizona raising Arizona. Wow. Okay, I’m gonna check that up. I’m gonna look for your, for your cameo.

CS 55:38
You’re seeing there’s a guy, one of the other brothers in the movie, his name is Ruben. And he’s got a deep voice and you’ll you’ll he’s talking about his menstrual cycle in prison is quite funny. And you’ll see me right before he says that on me. But I got really long hair, My hair was shoulder length, like Rick James was, but it was real, at the time. You know? So I think that’s what got me in the movie. Because at that time, there wasn’t too many people for head shoulder hair that was black That was actually real. So so I think that’s what got me the part, you know, whatever else was going on in that guys mind when he saw me in the restaurant that I was cheffing at in Scottsdale, Arizona. So that’s how that happened.

MO 56:26
Wow. I am ear to ear smiling over here just giggling over here, man. It’s so cool. All right, Charlie, what is a resource that you’d recommend for those looking to increase their agricultural understandings?

CS 56:47
Be open, be patient with yourself. Don’t Don’t beat yourself up, if you fail, you know what I mean? And follow instructions, no matter where you get them from, even if it’s off the package, they put it there for a reason. Okay, you know, a lot of people just put stuff into their no follow instructions, you know, so that’s what I was saying. Give yourself a chance. And be open with it, follow instructions and be happy, you know, and enjoy yourself while you’re in the fullness of nature, and with the Creator Himself, to stay open to it, and it’ll all unfold right before your eyes.

MO 57:33
I definitely have an issue with following instructions. I, you know, professionally, I’m a I’m a biologist. And so, you know, with all the protocols and everything, all we do is follow instruction. And so whenever I get out in the garden, I consider that this sort of free, free time, you know, and I’m just like, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna do that, I’m not gonna do that, and I’m gonna do my own thing. And then, you know, it’s just like, just like you said it, you know, eventually end up circling back around and be like, Alright, now that I did my own thing, let me see what they say. And, you know, in three weeks, you get the same results as it took me for, you know, for three months or something like that, because, you know, I was living, like, leaving out a crucial thing or, or something like that. It’s, you know, but that that’s, that’s the stubbornness, I guess.

CS 58:25
And see like I said, we’re only human. And you said, a very important thing about leaving out the crucial this and that, you know, it’s like, one thing, like, it’s like, if, when you’re reading a cookbook, the writer of the cookbook, is going to give you the basics, but because maybe of their energy? let’s say, they’re not gonna give you everything, you know, there’s always going to be something they’re gonna hold back, because they want to be the best at it. You see, and if there’s something, you know, that you’re not going to get, that’s why things get diluted when they’re passed down. You know, they get diluted, because something like a remain and you know, and somebody wants to keep a little secret of something that they know, and don’t want nobody else to know. You know, and that’s how things get diluted. And things think you’re getting the right something and don’t work out. Like if somebody don’t want you to have it. Right. You know, but you’ll figure it out. You know, and that’s how we get our own touches and everything, whether we pass it on to others, you know, depends on how open we are and if we’re not vain. Whether we give all the secrets away. I mean, like you know I don’t mind giving it away, you know, it takes a special person to absorb all of that. You have to be open to take in that type of information. You can’t resist it. So that’s all I can say, you know, you’ve got to be open and I think, you know, young people, I mean, yeah, you know, young people fully, there’s no energy and zeal and drive and all of that. Well, I know I was young once and I still am in my mind, but But I didn’t listen very well, you know, I mean, I’ve had to bump my head a lot of times, you know, before I understood things. And so, you know, now I’m very, very patient, and open and understanding very patient. And I’m brutally honest. And, you know, I don’t know, revelations come to me, you know, but honestly, I think, you know, you have to be honest with yourself, and honest with everything, you know, before true enlightenment comes, you know, in anything that you do.

MO 1:00:34
Wow. Yeah, I, what you said was very interesting, because I’ve been sort of thinking about what oral tradition means, even though and people’s sort of attitude about, you know, that is the most pristine way for the transmission of knowledge over time. But then people will say that knowing full well that they were in kindergarten at some point in time, and also played the telephone game, you know,

CS 1:01:09
I ain’t heard nobody say that, in a long time. Call up and tell people a refrigerator was running down the street too Yeah.

MO 1:01:18
And so you know, and so what you’re saying kind of adds adds to, to what I’m saying, because it’s like, yeah, if, if you did have the information, and you were vain, then you would withhold. And, and that would contribute, it’s like, it’s like what they say about walking in the woods, right? They say that you shouldn’t, if you think that you’re walking in a straight line in the woods, you’re wrong, because one of your legs is pretty, it’s statistically one of our legs is going to be shorter than another, right, and that you’re walking in a straight line, you’re actually walking on a very slight curve. So you walk into the woods, and then you try and turn around and go back. And then you keep that, you know, you’re always walking slightly to the left, and then you turn around, wherever you think the turning around is, and then you end up walking slightly to the left, and then you, and then you’re not at the exit of the woods. And so you turn around and start walking slightly to the left, and make all of these sorts of very weird things, and you just find yourself very lost in the woods. And I feel like a lot of a lot of the stuff that we’ve said that we’ve been passing down, over time has just left us a lot lost in the woods, especially as it relates to whatever wisdom that we think we might be possessing.

CS 1:02:36
Right, and, you know, I’m gonna be one of those type OG’s. That gives my wisdom I don’t want to leave here with it, I have to give it away. I have to, but I gotta find the right somebody to give it to. Everybody’s not going to be open to it. You see, so but you know, I’m working on it, you know, I got a an assistant, his name is Velva . And I’m really proud of that young man. He’s like, 30 years old, you know, very clean cut, you know, very quiet, but really, really into into learning, you know, any job, he’s a real quick study, I’m really proud to be working with him. You know? So, it’s gonna take years, you know, I mean, it didn’t, it’s not gonna happen overnight. You know, like anything else. Just like it took me you know, I didn’t just get this level overnight, you know, I mean, it took years, you know, for this to happen. So, be patient with yourself, enjoy it, all of it, you know, because it’s a hell of a ride, you know, beings you know, and it’s a joy, to plant your own stuff and harvest and feed yourself. There is no greater satisfaction than going out there and getting it yourself. You see, so and everybody can do it. But you know, hang in there and just, you know, just enjoy, you know, joy, your life and, you know, life is beautiful in life. You know, people really stop and look around and look at what the world really is and how beautiful nature is in itself. They’d be really impressed. You know, because if you really look at everything that we put up, in nature, it’s an abstraction. You know, everything we build, around nature is abstract to nature. There are very few few structures that man have made has made. That blends in with nature or are as beautiful as nature is. So we need to give ourselves time when we we, we are so go, go Go, go, go go on vacation, the dollar and everything we really don’t realize the magnificence that is around us or what we really mean.

MO 1:04:50
Absolutely, I completely, completely agree. What is one question you wish I asked you

CS 1:05:02
I can’t think of not one. Is there one that you might be hesitant to ask me?

MO 1:05:10
Um, no, I just have the, you know, the next two questions. But sometimes sometimes people have things that they promote or whatever that I haven’t asked him about. And so, or sometimes people like to talk about, like, I spoke with my one friend Marco. And we talked all about sort of the different natural farming practices. And I asked him about, I asked him the question, and he brought up bokashi composting, which he’s really proficient at. And so we, we talked about that, but that’s, that’s usually that’s us. I mean, if, if you don’t have anything, then I’ve been doing my job pretty well. So we can just

CS 1:05:43
say you, you are a fantastic interviewer. You know what I mean fantastic. You mean, I have. I’m not usually just calm and relaxed, you know, you know, but you’ve made, you know, because you made it very easy to talk to you know, the questions are, you know, are direct and they’re, they’re comforting, you know, and they’re easy to answer. And it’s been a pleasure for me to, you know, to sit here and share the little knowledge that I have, you know, in God’s big world, you know, I’m just happy to, you know, that you’ve given me the opportunity to talk about IGHGardens and what, you know, I’ve developed and everything, but you know, it’s really not me, I’m just, I’m doing God’s work, because, you know, we have, you know, roughly 50-60,000 homeless people sleeping on the streets of LA right now. No. So, you know, it’s a lot of work to do, though. And I just want to help, that’s all there is, you know, I just want to help.

MO 1:06:51
If you would like people to, how can people contact you?

CS 1:06:56
Well, you could contact me by way of my website, that’s, or telephone numbers in there. If you’d like to get a via email, it’s I’d love to hear from you. If you have any questions, you can follow me on Instagram, direct message me even on Facebook, I’d be happy to answer your questions. Now, I live in Zone 10B which is Southern California. But I think growing is basic.In every time zone, as long as you know, the seasons, if you know the seasons, and you’ll know what you can do. And when you can do it this way. I think that’s one of the keys, you know, to gardening, especially in a climate like mine. I’m in the Mediterranean climate where you can grow all year round. And, you know, which is tricky. Because here in LA, we have two springs, a mild fall, and a very short winter. Okay, so our spring is getting ready to come up right now. March through May. And then it’ll happen again, September through November, and then it starts getting cold. So the second spring is so short, that, you know, your tomatoes, you know, during the summer start holding back, but then when the second spring come, they’ll start producing tomatoes again. And then the cold will come before those tomatoes get ripe. So you know, it, you know, every every climate zone has difficulty. So, you know, I stick with, you know, with what grows in each season, because everything has a season. And that’s what I do. I let everything that grows in the season grow. And I changed with the season. So like, you know, you have to know the seasons in order to know what’s going to grow.

MO 1:08:50
You know, I’m still gonna ask this last question, but it almost feel like you answered it just with with everything that you said, after you said that I’m in zone 10 B. Because, you know, as you know, what this whole podcast is all the listeners know, you know, from for, I believe that it’s more of a philosophical readiness that you have to have for growing plants, as opposed to some sort of prescriptive instruction based thing, you know, and, and so the question that I was going to ask you, that I already feel like you answered, but I still want your answer. And then I’ll and then I’ll continue on with the rest of what I’ve said. The question I’m going to ask you last question is, what is one question others should ask you first, before working with plants and the soil?

CS 1:09:50
What should they ask me first.

MO 1:09:53
Yeah. So if somebody was somebody says to you, “Charlie, I’m thinking about starting a garden” what what what what What should they? What would be, I guess the question that could they get ask for them to really develop an a real good understanding before they start actually putting their hands in the soil?

CS 1:10:15
Well, oh, I would ask them if they have a pet, a dog, or cat, or something that they really care for, you know, and if they take care of that animal, and you know, as part of a family or something like that, if they have that much love for their pet, and they want to, that’s the kind of love You’re going to have to have in order to maintain a garden. If you know, you can maintain it, you just like you put your love into your pet and put the pet put the love back into you. Same thing with a garden. Except it’s not moving, but it’s producing is not making noise or anything like that, but it’s producing for you. Because the love you put in it, and the love is given back to you. You see, you have to be ready to take on the responsibility of caring for the garden, just like you’re caring for your pet or yourself. So that takes love. So, you know, you know, if you love yourself. Then you won’t have a problem loving, you know, doing gardening work, you know, at all.

MO 1:11:23
Yeah, that I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s really good. I mean, I may ask people that question. Be before, beforehand, because, um, because especially when people my age, people that are moving out, you know, their parents house and stuff like that, you know, they’re like, Okay, I’m gonna get all these plants. And then they’re really not ready for that yet. I don’t think and and then they’re surprised that that the the the plans dying, and then Worsley, they think that something’s wrong with them. Because the plants have died, not something necessarily wrong with their approach or their technique, which is really is more of, you know,

CS 1:12:10
you shouldn’t beat yourself up, even if you did make a mistake, if you did overwater it, or underwater or whatever, like that, you have to give yourself a chance and try it again. See, but that’s why it’s so important to even you know, to pay attention to even have a basic instructions that they did. And you can dither and tinker with those with those instructions, as you work with the plant yourself and adapt your own style of raising it, you know, by doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that, or whatever you think you would only you’re going to know that the way the plant grows and reacts, whether it works or not.

MO 1:12:48
Absolutely. The you know, for So, you know, my, my fiance and I are living here, and we’re having to work together to work on how we, you know, generally I water my plants, and she waters her plants, you know, and, and some of the things that we’ve seen with with some of the plants have been, well, you know, you can’t really, like for example, we have this we have a snake plant in the house. And, and earlier this year, it was having real trouble, you know, and, and I was watching it, and I was realizing that what was going on is that, we were kind of watering the plant, we were watering that particular plant on our schedule, not on its schedule. You know, and, and, you know, when I, when I do do consulting for people that that’s usually the number one problem is that they’re trying to take care of plants on their schedule, rather than what the plant actually is and, and they’re not watching for the plant to, They’re not watching the plant for the plant to give them signals about now it’s time for me to be watered. Now it’s time for me to be fertilized. You know what I mean? Now it’s time for you to come in, come in, talk to me, touch me look at the underside of my leaves and see that there’s something going on here, you know.

CS 1:14:10
Yeah, I noticed you’re talking about houseplants and so let me ask you this. Do you turn your house plants?

MO 1:14:17
But what? What uh, what is it turn? Can you elaborate on it that what does that mean?

CS 1:14:22
Sure. Well, if you’ve got houseplants, they’re in pots or containers right? And by turning them on, you turn them counterclockwise or clockwise from like, say, six o’clock and 12 o’clock or even light distribution all the way around a plane, whatever window you got your light coming through aeration plant, houseplants, and he would turn the pot, you know, from say 12 o’clock to three o’clock. You know, you know, you know, every other day or so. You know, just so, you know, they would have made a rotation because, you know, the way the light came through the one window. That’s why I asked if you turned it, you know? Yeah. That’s why because you know how to grow toward the light, you know? You don’t turn them up bend all the time towards the window.

MO 1:15:21
Yeah, so certain certain ones I do and certain ones I don’t. Um, because, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s really dependent. I mean, so right now I’m looking at my I got a money tree over here. Pachira aquatica, and, and this plan has stuck, you know, stuck with me through all sorts of all sorts of different insect pressures. And it’s, it’s growing and leaning in one particular direction. And, and I could, I could turn it, but the way that the sunlight comes in the house, if I were to turn it, it would be countered to it also developing the same strength that it needs to grow straight up.

CS 1:16:08
And for you turn it around, it would look crooked. They don’t have to go back for the window and straighten itself up.

MO 1:16:17
Well, because because of the very interesting, yes, but yes, but in this situation. What I also want the plan to do at the same time is develop resilience. And so it’s also like, you know, I do turn it in and rotate it. But for this one, I have seen that when for some of my plants, what I do see is them saying Don’t Don’t be turning me like that.

They say, you know, I’ll do it. When I feel like you know,

CS 1:16:54
I got it. I just wanted to check it out. Now, that little snarky question to you. Sorry about that.

MO 1:17:02
No, it’s all good. It’s all good Charles. So I want you to stay on the line after we’re done. But I’m gonna say that look little outro. And, but stay on, stay on stay on the line. Okay.

CS 1:17:15
Sure. Yeah.

MO 1:17:17
Okay, great. So we’re many many, many, many thanks to Charlie for sharing his wisdom and his experience. Please visit agriculture podcast comm for the full show notes. Share Jigijigi with your friends, family, and closely related siblings of the soil. Leave us a five star review wherever you listen to and we will say then as we say now, Asante Sana. Medase Pa Modupe O!

Thank you for listening. To Jigijigi peace